M&M

Hi guys, I'm new to the board & I probably hail from down the wrong side of the world compared to most of you guys. I was wondering though, I keep reading in most of the posts that the C32 humbles an M3 in a straight line. Is that from you guys personal encounters or is tat from magazine tests? Because apart from the Autocar test, I have not found a single test anywhere on the planet that had got the C32 quicker. I have checked Australian tests, European, British, Spanish, Greek, Norwegian, German, whatever. It's normally pretty close, but the M3 is always a few 10th's quicker to any speed. What's your comments?

s4iscool

from a stop I cant "whoop" an M3 because launching this car aint so easy (lot more torque). Ive still never lost to one, but Im not winning by 5+ car lengths either. Usually somewhere in the 2-3 car length area...win is a win.

From a low speed roll, there is no contest, C32 all the way. This is from more than 5 "encounters" with either 6 speed or SMG E46 m3's. Some I talked to, some were strangers I raced by chance. One fool raced me twice, I think he forgot I was the same one that spanked him a couple weeks earlier.

M&M

OK, I drive an E46 M3. Here's a pic of my car with a work colleague who has a 2003 C32. Another colleage also has a black C32. I have raced a few C32's in chance encounters on the street. Have yet to be beaten, but I am a bit of a hooligan & always 1 step ahead. Now, with my 2 colleagues we went to a 1km stretch of deserted road & did some "scientific"evaluations. Launchin, rolling whatever. The M3 walked away at any speed. The launching wasn't particulary pretty but I guess an auto will always suffer against a manual. I wasn't shy with the rev.

But the point is that you might have some stories of beating M3's. On an M3 board there will be guys stating they kill C32's. The only way to know for sure is the magazine tests & track times. At the strips on this side of the world, the C32's are 0.5 seconds slower over 1/4 mile.

M&M

Just thought I'd add that I'm no pro driver, but a few buddies & I do have a high performance driving club & we take part in many events. Here's some pics so you know what we have in our club:

SiLvaC32

o wow, thats a nice collection of cars!! is that a CSL M3 engine?? i can't really tell... the pix are kinda blurry.

s4iscool

great pics. Look for quarter mile slips, there are a number of them here that are sub 13sec with trap speeds in the 106-107mph area. For you to come here and say C32's are half a sec slower in the quarter is poo poo

If you walk C32's you have one beast of an M3, because it doesnt happen to me at all. To walk another car, you need at least 30+ hp on them, you are actually less on HP and Torque...if you are stock Then we aint comparing apples to apples...take some stageI or II C32s...you wont touch those.

M&M

Yeah, it's a CSL. It belongs to the same guy that has the E55. He has an E55, M5, M3 SMG & M3 CSL. He's a good buddy of mine. We also have chipped RS6's in the club that run in the mid 12's. I'll try to get a video online of me vs a silver C32 at a local dragstrip. He's also in our club & has a very strong C32.

s4iscool

So you are comparing a CSL to a stock C32? I think thats a tiny detail you forgot to mention

M&M

S4iscool, my car is bone stock. I do have Toyo T1-s which seem to be able to handle a bit more revs than the Michelins. I can normally slip the clutch at about 4.5K with minimal wheelspin.

The one major think you forget is the shape of the power curve & transmission losses. In a sprint an M3 in always between 6000-8000rpm after 1st gear. I assume a C32 is between 5000-7000rpm. Have a look at how the C32 power drops off after 5500rpm. Roots type blowers are great for low down torque but not so good at high rpm with the parasitic losses associated with them.

Not on our dyno's at 6800rpm an M3 is making something like 22kw more on the wheels than a C32 (slushbox has more losses as well). The M3 power curve is on the way up & the C32 is on the way down at 6800. Do yorself a favour & compare the upper-rpm powerband of both cars because that's all that matters in a sprint.

xscream

I think it depends very much on whos behind the wheel of the M3.

I have seen an M3 win 201m races vs Mitsubishi Evolution IV, and that car does 0-62mph in between 4.9 and 5.2sec stock. And has 4wd.

Ive also raced an M3 with my RS4, and I took him with about 2-3 carlenghts after 100m, and then I just gain...

While against the first M3 driver, I would have to work really hard to even keep up.

Conclusion, stock 6spd euro M3 Is faster than a stock C32 in a straight line; if the m3 driver is pro.

cscollis

From my 1 experience racing my C32 against a M5:

Me and the wife are cruising home in north dallas. A friend of ours is driving his M5 and we both hit the light together. The friend in the M5 reved at us. When the light turned green and bam, yes the wife floors it!

She put over a car on him off the line and continued to walk away up to 100. His car is a 99' M5 stick.

Sad thing is, she did that same thing to my vette that runs 11's except that I caught her around 90.

I have raced a couple of corvettes in my C32 and those were even or the C32 slightly pulling. They much have been 2.73 autos (70% of all corvettes).

A M3 is a good looking grocery getter. They are not fast but handle really well. I wish the M crowd would realize that 333 hp and no torque will beat a granny with a rocker but they need to leave other cars alone!

s4iscool

Thats why cars have something called gears. The gears allow the car to drip back into its power range. Do you only race in 1st geat, then the race is over?

Anyways, im done discussing this with you, because your freak of an M3 will beat all C32's

Happy?

rrf

4.5K drop makes a big difference, but if you do it, M3 manual should have the edge. That is why mags have M3s faster yet 'many' street races go to C32s. Wicked drop is REQUIRED. The mags don't care about the cars they don't own.

Like M&M said, M3 needs to be raced at the top rpm band, C32 is more flat.

Also remember, not every M3 raced by a C32 is a manual. Sometimes you don't know.

Actually these cars are so close this is kind of funny.
C32s still aren't scared of stock M3s, they will win more often than not.

That CSL would be a different story.

Thai

Well, if you want to talk about GEARING, then you are talking about M3's strong point! Gearing in the M3 is very aggressive...far more than C32 AMG. Check out M3's 6 forward gear ratios and final drive ratio.

So, gearing should NOT be an argument against M3. You will be at a loss.

Doesn't the C32 AMG supercharger turn OFF after 2500 rpms or something like that?? I read that on a recent article posted here. If this is true, then your power advantage is limited to low-rpms.

BTW, according to recent Road & Track comparo, SMG M3 (fully loaded with 19" rims, etc.) barely edged out the C32 AMG in acceleration and 1/4 mile...with every other performance figures, the M3 dominated both S4 and C32 AMG.

Also, i laugh at these comments about C32 beating M3 by 2-3 car lengths! Based on power ratings & gearing, there is no way a C32 OR M3 can beat each other by more than 1 car length if driver skill is decent. Anything more is pure BS or bad driver. For all purposes, these two are EQUAL in acceleration.

M&M

Hey, my M3 is not the CSL, that CSL is running in the 12's stock & with 800km on the odo. But back to the topic. Gears help but have a look at these graphs:




Now, all you need to look at is the last 1500rpm or so at the right of the graph. Having peak torque at 2000rpm or whatever doesn't help in a drag race because you will never see it after 1st gear. The M3 maintains its power to redline while the C32 drops off. Like I said, on our dynos the C32 has up to 22kw less than an M3 at 6800rpm at the wheels. If you compare power at say 3000 rpm then the C32 has more.

mhh

M&M, when Australian Motor did the 2002 Performance Car of the Year, the c32 posted a better acceleration time that the SMG M3. They preferred the M3 overall, but acknowledged that the C32 was quicker down the strip.

In any case, the 2 cars are too close in acceleration to worry about. You will rarely hammer either that hard in the real world.

M&M

Yeah, but we find that the manuals are a bit quicker than the SMG's. Also, the C32's tend to be very sensitive to fuel. When the C32 in our club runs on 102 racing fuel, he posts within 0.1-0.2 of our times. When he's on pump fuel, he;s about 0.5 seconds off the pace.

But I think for 90% of the time the C32 is the better car. That is why I am considering getting a C55 especially as I will need a 4-door car soon. I was just debating where the straight line butchering stories were coming from. If cars are so closely matched then a 5 length butchering has got to be driver related.

KompressorKev

I'm not sure about you guys, but 2 of my friends have m3s and I beat them both. I don't think that I am biased because I am a big bmw fan too. I know that m3s are a better sports car in most performance categories. In fact, I used to own an e36 m3. However, the 2 m3s i have raced have been driven with various drivers. We also raced from a rolling start, highway race, and drag race. I won in each race. Maybe they arent very good drivers, but I don't think shifting from a roll is that hard. Well either way they are both nice cars

Aero

Where do you read these stories M&M?

Arguments about gearing and torque curves is pub talk!

Only one example, but look at these times: clickety-click. Also 'official' 0-60 times are identical for M3 & C32.

I'm bored of this tiresome 'M3's being faster than anything' debate If someone nipped over to an M3 forum and posted a similar thread, there is no way that the C32 would get any respect or credibility - M3 would be faster without doubt. This to me epitomises the mentality of an M3 driver (I mean no disrespect) and this is why I drive a C32. I also have 4 doors, plenty of room in the back for the kids and my car doesn't sound like a bag of nails in the morning! So an M3 is faster on a 1/4 mile. So? Does this make M3 drivers smarter than the rest of us?

Just enjoy your car!

PS My house is bigger than yours

Bux

i have run 13.1 stock and 12.9 stock w/nitto's (not g-tech!)

Thai

Sorry, but i don't see a difference on this forum either...you guys are just as protective as M3 owners! Just read this whole thread (and many before it)...same thing.

Mentality of M3?? It's the same crap here. M3's don't get much respect here. Where have you been??!!

4-doors...i give you that...getting into back seat much easier. Back seat room?? Uhh, last time i checked, back seat room in the C32 is not cavenous nor is it that much bigger than M3...same goes for cargo room. In fact, both measurements are quite close in the rear.

Bux

both cars are low 13's ...even though i hit 12.9 once ..done.

IdriveFast

well... i have yet to read a story where some1 in a C32 claims to beat an M3 by more than 2-3 car lengths...

i do NOT consider 2-3 car lengths a "butchering"

if the race lasts long enough, then of course the car lengths will be greater.

maybe you are reading something like 2-3 cars or 4-5 cars by 150mph...

im pretty sure your not reading something like 4-5 cars by 80mph...

well... i didnt read the entire post... but i just thought i bring that to your attention if it hadnt already crossed your mind

IdriveFast

im sorry... but i really think that mentality goes for m3's way more than C32's.

and the worst part is, they have everyone else believing that they are the fastest guys in the world!

whenever somebody asks me what i drive and i say C32, they usually say something stupid like "you get smoked by m3's alot huh"
why would you say something like that about somebody's car?!?!

and i said "why do you say that?
they say "cause my friend drives a M3 and he says C32's are slow"
so i say "well you know what? the next time he says that, tell him to come race me"

im not saying this ****iness is not deserved, cause we all know the M3 is a legendary car, but i really do believe that M3 drivers believe they are the fastest drivers on the road

maybe its the magazines, it probably is
but like someone said earlier, magazines really abuse the test cars in ways that a real owner would NEVER DREAM OF

and i think its alot easier to abuse a manual car than an automatic

also, when M3 drivers talk about the C32, they talk soooo much s h i t about the car's handling, despite never having driven one!
even the drivers who havent even raced in their m3's make stupidass comments like yea C32's are slow!

i was reading in an IS300 forum once and a M3 driver said that M3's are faster than C32's all the time in everyway... until one C32 driver said that he was just talking out of his a$$ and that he had never lost to a M3 before (claiming he was 4-0 against M3)

then the M3 driver responded with, and this is my favorite part, it epitomises everything ive been saying, "actually, i havent had the privilage of running with a C32"

i believe that C32 driver is a member of this forum, AMGdood
and his brother drives an Imola Red M3, which i have met before on the road and exchanged compliments.


so im really sorry, but im gonna hasve to say M3 drivers are WAY ****ier than C32 drivers, and much more often, espcially since there are more than 5 times more M3's on the road than C32's

IdriveFast

jus look at Kain, he thinks that jus cause hes driven his dads E-class once, he knows everything there is to know about MB's and AMG's, even though hes not old enough to have a freaking license, much less street race.