BBALLER

Do the 03 models have many of the same airmatic and other problems as the 00-02 model?Or have they been completely ironed out

bamberger_1

Hi as far as my knowledge goes the AIR MATIC reliability was bad for the 1999 models. he ones where you only had 1 option for the struts to stiffen. The version which has actually Standard and two additional settings (starting 2000) seems to be ok. It could be the the models were introduced in the USA 1 year later. So 2003 shall be ok.

kenstudios

From what i've seen and touched, the 03 and up models are by far better in all aspects. Not only is the airmatic different but the command, headlights, taillights, seats, headrests, aircondition blows harder, updated facial and many more. 04 and up gets the DVD nav system so that means 1 DVD cover the entire country making it easy to plan a multi state (region) trip as compared to changing disks everytime you cross a region, 03 and up has the option to see a digital speedo reading. Want me to continue? 03 and up gets the updated voice control module that lets you program all you commands by voice and that includes you addresses for the nav system. I can go on and on but I'll stop here.

BBALLER

Keep going intresting info. Which would you purchase if you had the choice 02 500 or 03 430?

kenstudios

02 500 has 302 ponies and 03 430 has 275. I would still go with 03 S430 especially knowing they are both governed at 130 miles/Hr. Casing point - I was on the expressway chasing after a red 06 charger and once I clocked 130 I could never catch him. In the S600 range the 00-02 pushed 380+ horses while the 03 and up received the twin turbo engine giving 492+ so the difference is noticeable. The 04 and up 220's have the 7 speed gear box while the rest had 5 speed. We can keep going all day and I'll still pick 03 and up.

BBALLER

ok 02 s55 or 03 430

Jayhawk

Does anyone have any actual, objective data to support the common folklore about which years are/were "good" and which years are/were "bad?" And how are "good" and "bad" defined?

Just curious... Because my experiences do not support the common lore.

BBALLER

Although we are talking about an s-class there really no bad, good =reliability,performance,style
"bad"= not as reliable, doesnt perform as well, not as stylish...

Jayhawk

Reliability, performance and style of my car are excellent, IMO.

kenstudios

True. An S-class is an S-class but most people almost weekly ask about changing to the new 03 headlights, tail lights, LED mirrors, upgrade to the widescreen command and more updates. It's the little things that make one enjoy their car more. For once I would like to enjoy a nav system that tracks the cars position when I just have it on the map without reaching the end of the screen and freezing up. I would love to drive from Orlando to Chicago without having to change Nav CDs every region I pass. If these model years are the same then we won't be asking how to.....As far as reliability, my S500 spends every other week in the shop and I'm just now hitting 70k miles. If it's not one thing its another.

BBALLER

So with an 03+ I would be getting a more reliable vehicle with all the upgrades bottom line?

kenstudios

I would say yes.

Jayhawk

This is hardly proof that the '00 S is a bad car. It just reflects a desire by a few to "update" a few things. Frankly, I know almost no one who would want to do that to a classic S-class. I love my car just the way it is, although I did get a set of AMG wheels and a burl wood steering wheel and shift knob. This hardly means my car is not as good as a '03+.

My NAV system looks and works perfectly. You apparently are not aware that our CDs WILL get us coast-to-coast or Orlando to Chicago, w/out changing a single CD. Every CD has the entire national interstate highway system on it. You only need to change a CD when you go into Orlando or Chicago. This is no big deal to me. I have a set of CDs that work everywhere.

These model years are NOT meant to be the same. That is why we call them model years, and that is why MB changes chassis from time to time. But just because they are different, does not make one inferior or superior to the other. There is a crowd-mentality that develops on these forums that get people complaining about dealers, model years, etc., but which bears little resemblance to reality. I don't see the data, just a lot of complaining.

As far as your S500 being in the shop every other week, I can only say mine (w/ 65,000 miles) is hardly ever in the shop--and then usually when I go in for a scheduled service. There have been times I even made up reasons to take it in so that I might see the new models or just get the oil changed. This isn't to say that I have never had a problem w/ my car, but it has been nothing like what I read in these posts. Perhaps you got a bad car, or perhaps you are hard on your car, but that doesn't make all '01s bad cars. Every car and every model year has some problems, but I have yet to see any actual numbers supporting the folklore that has evolved.

Skylaw

I owned a '00 S500 and now have an '05. I wrote up the differences at https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w220/124317-comparison-00-05-w220.html some time ago.

I agree with Jayhawk - I would not call the '00 a "bad" car. Like most first year production cars, it had its share of problems. My '00 had been in the shop often, mostly for minor problems with electronics when I bought it. I had a few other problems - but over half of my trips to the shop were to fix something the dealer didn't fix right the first time. The car was a dream to drive, and mechanically it was very sound. I did have an Airmatic problem, but knew what to look for because of the forums - replaced the relay, problem fixed before it could progress to damage-causing failure.

I had and still have frustrations with MB for its complete lack of foresight in designing for flexibility in its COMAND, and I did modifications to my '00 - adding an IceLink to integrate an iPod, and a MikBox for phone flexibility. Also upgraded the voice control. All were easy to do. I am not able to modify the '05 as easily, and the frustrations continue.

I like the improvements in the DVD nav system, but the CD system in the '00 worked well - and its ease of use improved once they put the whole U.S. interstate system on each CD. Things are a bit better thought out in terms of ease of use in the '05, as I address in the link above - but that doesn't make the '00 a "bad" car. I would not have traded mine, except that my particular '05 was a 4-Matic - something I really like driving.

But the lack of ability to integrate an iPod with the '05 (and '06) continues, and is even worse than the '00, 3rd party suppliers made the retrofit kits for the D2B bus cars, but similar mods aren't available for the '05 or '06. - and because MB failed to include an AUX input - and though all the other connections for their Apple/MB iPod integration are present - lack of that input means you simply cannot add an iPod. The UHI cell phone system in the car provides some flexibility with phones (better than '00), and MB is finally releasing a half-assed Bluetooth modification for it. Half-assed because it doesn't download the SAP and use the car's own antenna (better range, less chance of damage to electronics), and lacks the fuller integration provided in the UHI system in European models.

Despite those frustrations, I do not count my '05 a "bad" car - it is a great car. It could be better. And its improvements over the '00-'02 models doesn't make them "bad."

Reliability has improved as model years advanced, at least judging by anecdotal evidence (including discussions with techs and the service manager at my dealership). However, that's the trend in virtually any new car model. Still, I don't know if the '00 and '01 was ever "bad." People who pay a lot for a car can be pretty demanding (and should be, in my book). Reliability was definitely worse than the '99 and before (although those cars have their specific areas of failure - browse their forums).

Plainly, some folks got some lemons. Jayhawk got a good one, and so did I. I expect a lot of folks did.

Jayhawk

Excellent observations, as usual, Skylaw!

BBALLER

jayhawk and skylaw very good points. helps alot in my decision to purchase the amighty s-class. I just want to get the most reliable of the two years at hand 02 or 03.I think i will pay a bit more and go for an 03.

kenstudios

Thanks guys for your input. The only thing I can say is my car is not a lemon. The first 50K miles were super with zero problem and I was proud of the car but afterwards it bacame a nightmare. I have a chevy suburban with well over 130k miles and that truck get abused big time. I'm still running everything original and has only had to replace the alternator. BBALLER, just buy whatever you feel is right for you.

By the way, does anyone know how to replace the front side marker lamp on the front bumper?

sprink49

Ken,
This might sound too simple but it is. Take a small blade screw driver and genly pry the lens away from it's housing in the bumper. You will then be the master of the obvious...replace bulb and pop it back together.

kenstudios

Thanks Sprink49, I thought of doing that but I had this feeling I was going to break something.

Skylaw

Bamberger 1 had an interesting observation concerning the earlier S500s that bears a read at https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...59#post1504159 :

"The thing about the years which had some trouble compared to the newer years is something which needs explanations.

"In Germany the W220 was introduced to the market in 1998. This year and the 1999 makes (production date before Sept 1999) had some issues you hear in most forums. But the production date (not the date sold!!!) Sept 1999 and after shall have overcome most of those issues. So it is important to find out the PRODUCTION date. Some of the cars "hang" around in dealer lots (and may be even in the factory) and may be sold as a newer year then they really are, as long as they never had a title issued."

I also note that during November of 1999 there was a changeover from the "C" nav to the "D" nav unit, and some other electronics changes. While my late Nov 99-built S500 was not "trouble-free," it did not suffer from problems the way the forums indicate some cars did. Bamberger 1's observation makes sense.

cwy E55

I'm was originally intended to pick up an 04 S430, but there's this 03 S500 available, and I'm wondering if I should switch focus.

I know 04'430 has
- 7 speed vs. 5
- less HP, but better economy
- DVD nav vs. CD nav

Anything else is different? either functionality and/or reliability?

Also, there is a "Service B overdue" on the dash, how much does this usually run at the shop / dealer? is this DIY?

Thanks in advance gents.

BTW, I am currently a BMW fan (own 4 5 series now), and this will allow me to see the other side of German engineering. But I'm wondering if maintenance and/or DIY will be just as available for the MBs as they are for the BMWs.

Skylaw

I'll address the '03 "facelift" version below. The "facelift" version had refreshed styling and may also have some telematics changes from the pre-facelift version. I don't know what all of the changes are - except the "facelift" version's front end will be identical to the '04, and the pre-facelifft would be identical to an '02 or earlier. Folks have posted pics that show the differences.

The COMAND unit in the '04, despite similar appearance to the '03, is very different. It is far easier to use, with a more logical menu system; it is text-capable, meaning you get song title and track readout from devices such as the Dension Gateway 500 iPod integration device. You won't get that in the '03 (but the '03 does have an AUX input jack hidden on the left side of the glove box, inside - it is the only W220 S-Class to have it. But you must control all music selection, scrolling, etc, from the iPod, and not with your steering wheel buttons; and there will be no title or track information shown at all using the AUX input). See https://mbworld.org/forums/audio-ele...mentation.html for more.

You can add a version of the Gateway 500 to the '03, but you still will not get song title, artist, or album names displayed.

With the DVD based nav, updates to the nav system firmware (not just map data) are provided on each annual DVD release. Not so with the CD-based systems.

The phone system in the '04 is by far the easiest and least expensive to add a Bluetooth phone setup. Every '04 had the CP-211 communications platform; to add a phone (even if one were never installed) simply means adding the V60 Bluetooth "Puck with tail" and using a compatible phone. If the '03 never had a phone, then adding one now would be much more expensive; however, if it once had a phone, upgrading to Bluetooth could be close to the cost of adding that to an '04. See posts #3 and 4 at https://mbworld.org/forums/audio-ele...ml#post2788377 for more.

The '03 had a D2B fiber optics system, proprietary to Mercedes and used by very few other manufacturers (Volkswagen licensed it for some models). The '04 has the newer MOST fiber optics system, a faster bus that is now industry standard and used by many manufacturers. This means that more 3rd party add-ons are available for the '04 than the '03.

The '03 saw the first big quality improvement after problems with the earlier models. Quality has continued on an upward curve since (perhaps not as dramatic as the difference between '03 and earlier, but still upward). An '04 may tend to be a bit more reliable than an '03 at similar mileage.