Security Issue, Can't start my car
06-11-2005, 10:50 PM
#1
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Security Issue, Can't start my car
So a few times today my car has been immobilized. The ignition lights up and engine turns over but wont start. When I remote lock the car and then re-enter a while later it will start. One time it left me stranded down the street. When I got home the engine stopped again. I then changed the battery in the Smart Key and hours later I got the car running. Hours after that it's not starting again. It’s been a frustrating day so far.
How do I cure this? Is there a specific procedure?
Jim 2000 E430
How do I cure this? Is there a specific procedure?
Jim 2000 E430
06-12-2005, 02:24 PM
#2
Originally Posted by jnash
So a few times today my car has been immobilized. The ignition lights up and engine turns over but wont start. When I remote lock the car and then re-enter a while later it will start. One time it left me stranded down the street. When I got home the engine stopped again. I then changed the battery in the Smart Key and hours later I got the car running. Hours after that it's not starting again. It’s been a frustrating day so far.
How do I cure this? Is there a specific procedure?
Jim 2000 E430
How do I cure this? Is there a specific procedure?
Jim 2000 E430
06-12-2005, 02:33 PM
#3
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It turns over for a few seconds and then stops cranking which I believe; stopping after a few seconds; is normal if the engine doesnt fire up. It only takes a flick of the wrist to get the car cranking. So no it won't crank for ever. You have to re-flick the key to the start position again to get it to crank again. Today it ran fine for several hours with many stop-starts of the engine. I left it for a few hours and now it wont start again!!!!. damm!
06-12-2005, 03:30 PM
#4
Originally Posted by jnash
It turns over for a few seconds and then stops cranking which I believe; stopping after a few seconds; is normal if the engine doesnt fire up. It only takes a flick of the wrist to get the car cranking. So no it won't crank for ever. You have to re-flick the key to the start position again to get it to crank again. Today it ran fine for several hours with many stop-starts of the engine. I left it for a few hours and now it wont start again!!!!. damm!
06-13-2005, 05:16 PM
#5
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Well, after reading all the forums more I'm beginning to think its the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPS) going out in the heat. I'm not keen on taking shots in the dark but since none of the OBDII codes are set and I have identical problems described elsewhere I will buy a new sensor tonight on the way home and install. Will keep you all posted.
06-14-2005, 06:55 AM
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2003 C230 Coupe
Hi guys, I am having the same exact problem in my 99 E320. The car stalls or does not start when the key is moved to the start position. The starter motor just spins the engine but the engine never fires. I suspect the issue indicated by the posting prior to mine makes sense. It has been really hot here in the East coast lately.
Is that the only sensor you guys think may be going bad? there are no errors set by the dash lights or the ODBII codes, so it is quite strange.
Engine runs quite fine when the stall situation is not occurring.
I noticed also that the idle is running at 600 rpm when I believe it used to run around 750 before.
I will go ahead in getting the crank position sensor replaced. Is that something easy for a do it yourslefer?
How about possible fuel filter issues? That doesn't sound to be likely, as my problems also clear by removing the key and re-starting again. Letting the car cool down also seems to do the trick.
Given the above similar problems this may be related to a bad lot issue on these sensors.
Where can they be purchased? Is there only one manufacturer of those parts? (i.e.Bosch?)
Is that the only sensor you guys think may be going bad? there are no errors set by the dash lights or the ODBII codes, so it is quite strange.
Engine runs quite fine when the stall situation is not occurring.
I noticed also that the idle is running at 600 rpm when I believe it used to run around 750 before.
I will go ahead in getting the crank position sensor replaced. Is that something easy for a do it yourslefer?
How about possible fuel filter issues? That doesn't sound to be likely, as my problems also clear by removing the key and re-starting again. Letting the car cool down also seems to do the trick.
Given the above similar problems this may be related to a bad lot issue on these sensors.
Where can they be purchased? Is there only one manufacturer of those parts? (i.e.Bosch?)
06-14-2005, 01:47 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Guanabara, if you are indeed having the identical issues then change the CPS.
Last night I changed the Crank Shaft Position Sensor (CPS) and now the car has been behaving properly. No more random "won't start". It appeared that the Texas heat after a shutdown the car would cause the failure in the sender. No OBDII code set as others have also said in the forums. $97 from the stealership for the part. 20 mins to change the part at home.
Last night I changed the Crank Shaft Position Sensor (CPS) and now the car has been behaving properly. No more random "won't start". It appeared that the Texas heat after a shutdown the car would cause the failure in the sender. No OBDII code set as others have also said in the forums. $97 from the stealership for the part. 20 mins to change the part at home.
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06-14-2005, 02:13 PM
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2007 S-550, 2001 E-430 & 1997 E-420
Pic of sensor
jnash, do you have any pics of the sensor? Where this sesnor located in engine compartment ??
My car start ok, but some time when the car runnig for while and I stop in Drive Through etc, I notice my idle jump little bit between 600 and 450 RPM.
Response will be appreciated.
My car start ok, but some time when the car runnig for while and I stop in Drive Through etc, I notice my idle jump little bit between 600 and 450 RPM.
Response will be appreciated.
06-14-2005, 11:02 PM
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2003 C230 Coupe
Thanks guys,
looking at other MB forums it appears that the CPS has been one of the headaches of MB ownersof different models, specially M class SUVs among several other things.
I found out that at some online parts sites the CPS (sometimes also called Reference sensor) can be purchased for $60.00 (OEM model made by Bosch). So I will go ahead and try getting one.
There are 2 types. One has a single screw hole and the other has 2. I will have to locate mine on the car to make sure which one I should order.
What I believe is happening is definetely a heat sensitive problem. While the car is moving the incoming air keeps the sensor relatively cool, but when you stop the front compartment of the engine tends to get much hotter, specially in Texas or elsewhere in the US during the summer. I have had problems with engine stalling when stopping at traffic lights and also after leaving the car parked for a few minutes and returning to drive away.
I believe this is an issue to report to the NHTSA Complaints web site, and therefore filed a complaint today. Hopefully if enough people complain MB will do what is right and put out a recall. I have seen GM doing voluntary recalls for much less safety related items. If MB won't voluntarily what manufacturers of cars costing half to 10 times less than their cars do, then the NHTSA is a good way to get satisfaction and teach their late bad management a lesson..
Interestingly I find some web sites that are created for people to put off their "steam" on the problems they had with their cars, some even safety related, should lead people to the NHTSA complaints web site. Only they have enough clout and authority to get any manufacturer do what is their responsibility, even after the warranty has expired. In my view most of these problems are happenning because MB failed to do a proper burn in and screening of the parts they got from different manufacturers. I could see a cheap car company doing that , but from MB it is umbelievable. The way some dealers service places are acting to charge people for repairs even while the car is barely out of warranty or under warranty is non-sense stuff, even people with starmark warranty are supposetly running into additional expenses for maintenance of items you would not expect to have large number of similar failures on cars of the same model or similar ones.
the NHTSA complaints web site is:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Office of Defects Investigation.
Go ahead and report what you know is a safety issue there and that way we will hopefully have enough complaints that the NHTSA will see a pattern and act on it.
looking at other MB forums it appears that the CPS has been one of the headaches of MB ownersof different models, specially M class SUVs among several other things.
I found out that at some online parts sites the CPS (sometimes also called Reference sensor) can be purchased for $60.00 (OEM model made by Bosch). So I will go ahead and try getting one.
There are 2 types. One has a single screw hole and the other has 2. I will have to locate mine on the car to make sure which one I should order.
What I believe is happening is definetely a heat sensitive problem. While the car is moving the incoming air keeps the sensor relatively cool, but when you stop the front compartment of the engine tends to get much hotter, specially in Texas or elsewhere in the US during the summer. I have had problems with engine stalling when stopping at traffic lights and also after leaving the car parked for a few minutes and returning to drive away.
I believe this is an issue to report to the NHTSA Complaints web site, and therefore filed a complaint today. Hopefully if enough people complain MB will do what is right and put out a recall. I have seen GM doing voluntary recalls for much less safety related items. If MB won't voluntarily what manufacturers of cars costing half to 10 times less than their cars do, then the NHTSA is a good way to get satisfaction and teach their late bad management a lesson..
Interestingly I find some web sites that are created for people to put off their "steam" on the problems they had with their cars, some even safety related, should lead people to the NHTSA complaints web site. Only they have enough clout and authority to get any manufacturer do what is their responsibility, even after the warranty has expired. In my view most of these problems are happenning because MB failed to do a proper burn in and screening of the parts they got from different manufacturers. I could see a cheap car company doing that , but from MB it is umbelievable. The way some dealers service places are acting to charge people for repairs even while the car is barely out of warranty or under warranty is non-sense stuff, even people with starmark warranty are supposetly running into additional expenses for maintenance of items you would not expect to have large number of similar failures on cars of the same model or similar ones.
the NHTSA complaints web site is:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Office of Defects Investigation.
Go ahead and report what you know is a safety issue there and that way we will hopefully have enough complaints that the NHTSA will see a pattern and act on it.
06-14-2005, 11:06 PM
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2003 C230 Coupe
BTW, I gathered that the CPS is located under the oil filter assembly on some MB engines, I wonder if that is also the case for the W210 cars.
Also I was considering removing the sensor and cleaning it up to see if it helps, but I don't have much hope on that
Also I was considering removing the sensor and cleaning it up to see if it helps, but I don't have much hope on that
06-15-2005, 05:17 PM
#11
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The sensor on a E430 8 cylinder V-8 is located at the back of the engine between it and the firewall. It is on the drivers side bank for the V-8 down the back side close to the flywheel between engine and transmission. It has a single plug connected with one torx screw #8 that is on the lower side of the connector. The connnector plug should just pull off while pressing-in the lever (usual stuff).
Inspecting the sensor - well, not much to clean unlike ABS sensors. I was in no mood to clean something that looked clean and reinstall to see if it would stop the car from failing.
hope this helps.
Inspecting the sensor - well, not much to clean unlike ABS sensors. I was in no mood to clean something that looked clean and reinstall to see if it would stop the car from failing.
hope this helps.
06-15-2005, 11:10 PM
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Thanks my friend,
I have an E320 with a similar problem, I will search the forums to see if the sensor location is identified somewhere. Otherwise I will try looking in the area you indicated for your car.
I get your point about the sensor already being quite clean to start with and not being worth getting stranded while trying to see if cleaning would help. Just the incovenience is worth more than the $60 I can get the sensor for.
Did you gain access to it from the top or bottom of the car?
I have an E320 with a similar problem, I will search the forums to see if the sensor location is identified somewhere. Otherwise I will try looking in the area you indicated for your car.
I get your point about the sensor already being quite clean to start with and not being worth getting stranded while trying to see if cleaning would help. Just the incovenience is worth more than the $60 I can get the sensor for.
Did you gain access to it from the top or bottom of the car?
06-22-2005, 07:17 PM
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2003 C230 Coupe
Thnks I found it quite easily. As indicated before, it is located behind the main engine block on the top side between the engine and the firewall.
There is enough space to fit a hand in the gap and lift the clip on the connector before pulling it up. I bought an inverted TORX E8 socket to remove the screw holding the sensor in place. Now I just need to get UPS to deliver the sensor I ordered last saturday.
I will let you know how it turns out.
Incidentally it seems that the location is the same for the E320 and E430 engines.
There is enough space to fit a hand in the gap and lift the clip on the connector before pulling it up. I bought an inverted TORX E8 socket to remove the screw holding the sensor in place. Now I just need to get UPS to deliver the sensor I ordered last saturday.
I will let you know how it turns out.
Incidentally it seems that the location is the same for the E320 and E430 engines.
06-23-2005, 06:53 PM
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Sounds like what happened to my car... It turned over, fired up but dies right away. But then you can read my post above about the odometer reading 999999...
06-23-2005, 11:13 PM
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2003 C230 Coupe
Unfortunately it is not what happened to our cars alone but to a lot of other ones. There are some car parts internet businesses that do not have any CPS available now, due to heavy demand. Bosh is apparently taking a while to restock them. Something must have hapenned on a lot of those sensors that is causing them all to have sinmilar problems so soon in the engine life.
It sounds like the plague on the MAF sensors for the C class cars a few years ago.
It sounds like the plague on the MAF sensors for the C class cars a few years ago.
06-25-2005, 02:14 AM
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2003 C230 Coupe
Job done.
I replaced the CPS (Aka reference sensor) tonight and all is working well.
Interesting enough the idle engine rpm which had dropped from the normal 750 rpm range down to 600 when the sensor went intermittent, is now back to 750. I also noticed that the car acceleration is a lot better now when the engine is hot. Most likely the failing CPS was causing some cilinders not to fire due to missing/intermittent engine position information.
I received the new Bosch part ordered from alloemautoparts.com for $59.00
I removed the plug connected to the sensor (Squeeze the top to release connector from base before pulling it out).
Then I used the E8 socket and a short socket driver to remove the screw holding the sensor.
I had to move the sensor in several directions before it would come out easily. It is mounted quite tightly on an access hole on the rear top engine block on the driver side.
I then placed the new sensor in place. Mounted the screw by hand and finally tightned it up using the socket driver.
A 10 minutes job, beating the record 20 min done by others above. (Not that I was trying to compete with anybody, but just saying that you took 20 min without the information as to how it was done is not helpful).
Saved a bundle and got what really need done, done right.
This forum is a great source of information and when used wisely can help us to figure out early what to watch out for. Even (specially) MB mechanics would learn from reading these forums.
Incidentally the next thing to watch-out for is the Harmonic Balancer. (aka belt tensioning pulley). MB has started a slow recall campaign for certain cars. The pulley is breaking apart in some cases and causing extensive damage in the engine compartment including the front hood. Check out yours and make sure that it looks to be in good shape without cracks/dents, etc.
Other than these sensors and small part issues the car is still a pleasure to drive. I am even more satisfied knowing that the E320 sedan is the safest car on the roads based on real accident statistics for the last 2 years.
BTW: while staying within the speed limit (40MPH) I got a mustang (front whell drive) to eat dust (for 3 seconds) on a rainy day as the traffic light changed from red to green. After reaching 40MPH I coasted at that speed while the Mustang driver showing up continued on accelerating. Of course my tires are not the original sleek tires but a much better set made by BFGoodrich (Traction T/A) which allows me to safely use the power available in these great engines. Check it out at: (original was Continental CH95)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compar...=4&sortValue=1
You would need to spend at least 50% more to get tires with similar all weather performance and even then the warranty would probably be for much less miles.
I replaced the CPS (Aka reference sensor) tonight and all is working well.
Interesting enough the idle engine rpm which had dropped from the normal 750 rpm range down to 600 when the sensor went intermittent, is now back to 750. I also noticed that the car acceleration is a lot better now when the engine is hot. Most likely the failing CPS was causing some cilinders not to fire due to missing/intermittent engine position information.
I received the new Bosch part ordered from alloemautoparts.com for $59.00
I removed the plug connected to the sensor (Squeeze the top to release connector from base before pulling it out).
Then I used the E8 socket and a short socket driver to remove the screw holding the sensor.
I had to move the sensor in several directions before it would come out easily. It is mounted quite tightly on an access hole on the rear top engine block on the driver side.
I then placed the new sensor in place. Mounted the screw by hand and finally tightned it up using the socket driver.
A 10 minutes job, beating the record 20 min done by others above. (Not that I was trying to compete with anybody, but just saying that you took 20 min without the information as to how it was done is not helpful).
Saved a bundle and got what really need done, done right.
This forum is a great source of information and when used wisely can help us to figure out early what to watch out for. Even (specially) MB mechanics would learn from reading these forums.
Incidentally the next thing to watch-out for is the Harmonic Balancer. (aka belt tensioning pulley). MB has started a slow recall campaign for certain cars. The pulley is breaking apart in some cases and causing extensive damage in the engine compartment including the front hood. Check out yours and make sure that it looks to be in good shape without cracks/dents, etc.
Other than these sensors and small part issues the car is still a pleasure to drive. I am even more satisfied knowing that the E320 sedan is the safest car on the roads based on real accident statistics for the last 2 years.
BTW: while staying within the speed limit (40MPH) I got a mustang (front whell drive) to eat dust (for 3 seconds) on a rainy day as the traffic light changed from red to green. After reaching 40MPH I coasted at that speed while the Mustang driver showing up continued on accelerating. Of course my tires are not the original sleek tires but a much better set made by BFGoodrich (Traction T/A) which allows me to safely use the power available in these great engines. Check it out at: (original was Continental CH95)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compar...=4&sortValue=1
You would need to spend at least 50% more to get tires with similar all weather performance and even then the warranty would probably be for much less miles.
06-25-2005, 02:22 AM
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2003 C230 Coupe
Originally Posted by hadam
jnash, do you have any pics of the sensor? Where this sesnor located in engine compartment ??
My car start ok, but some time when the car runnig for while and I stop in Drive Through etc, I notice my idle jump little bit between 600 and 450 RPM.
Response will be appreciated.
My car start ok, but some time when the car runnig for while and I stop in Drive Through etc, I notice my idle jump little bit between 600 and 450 RPM.
Response will be appreciated.
http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com...tion=000710448
That is the single interlock sensor which seems to be more common.
There is also a double interlock model but I could not get a photo for that one.
Check the plug connected to the sensor to see if there is a single (most likely) or double interlock on the connector.
06-29-2005, 10:15 PM
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2003 C230 Coupe
The sensor is magentically driven, so dirty shouldn't have affected the performance.
I suspect you will still have the problem when the weather gets hot again in your area (i.e. >98F on the shadows).
Let us know how it works out after a few months,
if still have the problem then try the CPS.
I suspect you will still have the problem when the weather gets hot again in your area (i.e. >98F on the shadows).
Let us know how it works out after a few months,
if still have the problem then try the CPS.
07-06-2005, 08:23 PM
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The p/n can be found on the following link:
http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com...ference+Sensor
It is indicated there that is located on the flywheel. So it should be towards the rear part of the engine near the firewall. You may want to ask a mechanic you know to give you some help.
I would tend to assume it is located around the same area as for the 99 E320, so start by looking on the rear driver side of the engine. You really need to look well as it can not be easily seen from the front of the car. You need to look from the top while leaning over the driver sider fender rear part near the door jambs.
http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com...ference+Sensor
It is indicated there that is located on the flywheel. So it should be towards the rear part of the engine near the firewall. You may want to ask a mechanic you know to give you some help.
I would tend to assume it is located around the same area as for the 99 E320, so start by looking on the rear driver side of the engine. You really need to look well as it can not be easily seen from the front of the car. You need to look from the top while leaning over the driver sider fender rear part near the door jambs.
07-06-2005, 09:03 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply, but I'm still having a bit trouble locating the part. I took a couple of pictures hoping you could point out the right direction for me to futher inspect. I wish I was a bit more car savy
http://portfolio.iu.edu/bjafari/CIMG0007.JPG
http://portfolio.iu.edu/bjafari/CIMG0008.JPG
http://portfolio.iu.edu/bjafari/CIMG0010.JPG
Thanks again for your time
http://portfolio.iu.edu/bjafari/CIMG0007.JPG
http://portfolio.iu.edu/bjafari/CIMG0008.JPG
http://portfolio.iu.edu/bjafari/CIMG0010.JPG
Thanks again for your time
07-15-2005, 02:52 AM
#24
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My car is not cranking at all, would this a sign of the CPS? 9 times of 10 the key will not even turn to the start position in the ignition. This just started happening tonight out of nowhere, stranded, help!
08-20-2005, 04:57 AM
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I hope that by now you have found why your car does not crank.
The CPS failure does not prevent a car with a good battery and starter motor from cranking. Besides those items you may also have a problem on the ignition switch or even the remote key itself.
Try the spare keys.
Let's us know how you got out of this...
The CPS failure does not prevent a car with a good battery and starter motor from cranking. Besides those items you may also have a problem on the ignition switch or even the remote key itself.
Try the spare keys.
Let's us know how you got out of this...
