C320Jeff

ASP's response to my pulley saga

This should, at long last, put to rest all discussion relating to the original alloy pulley design from ASP. I have attached the letter I received today from Lee at ASP.

To briefly recap for those who weren't here six weeks ago, and refresh for those who were and may have forgotten:

I installed the all-alloy ASP pulley in my 2002 C230 coupe last September. Although I had a difficult time installing it, I felt all along I did a good job. A "shout out" to Buellwinkle for his document. I ran the car trouble-free for several months and several thousand miles, when on New Years Day, the pulley sheared off the crank.

What ensued was just short of a lynching by many members of this and other forums, whereby I was essentially accused of improper installation and/or damage resulting from neglect, carelessness, abuse, etc. Many of these slings and arrows arose from speculation and hearsay, as NONE OF US knew what truly caused the failure. Because the situation had not been truly accurately assessed and was running wildly amock, I felt it was prudent to clip it at the root, and I deleted my original post.

From the start, Lee was supportive and told me he would refund the cost of the pulley and any associated repair costs, and requested I send him the broken pulley and any other damaged parts for analysis.

The end result was several weeks down time and an enormous expense on my part. Some raised concerns regarding warranty and the inpropriety of making claims for aftermarket parts. Rest assured, I never had any intention of doing so. The repair costs came directly out of my pocket, I had no alternative but to repair the car, and I kept the faith that ASP would keep their word and, much to my relief, they did.

In reading Lee's reply I felt a great sense of vindication, not because they covered my repair costs, but because, in Lee's words "the install looks great". There were NO signs of deformation, stress fractures, or any other indication the pulley was damaged from the installation. It simply was an inadequate design, and a failure of this type was inevietable. ASP has taken steps to address this problem, and anyone who has the all-alloy pulley is strongly encouraged to replace it with the steel-hubbed version.

I would like to make the following acknowledgements:

To Lee at ASP: I thank you for your support and for keeping your word. I believe ASP is a truly top-notch outfit for not hiding behind any number of excuses for this problem.

To those forum members who expressed their support and unbiased opinions in the many heated debates about pullies: Thank you, you have my gratitude and respect.

Lastly, to those who had little more to offer than regurgitation of others' opines and accusations: A big fat Bill-The-Cat "Plllbbbbtttttttttttttttt!"

TimmyC230boy

Is everyone happy now?


Glad to hear it all worked out Jeff

MarkL

I'm curious -- how much did the repairs cost?

schwarz c230

wow that is great service, I know it was probably a living hell, I am glad you did not get stuck with the bill.

C320Jeff

I don't think it's all that appropriate to be that specific, but suffice to say it was a staggering amount of money, because the engine had to be pulled, and the crankshaft had to be replaced (AND had to be ordered from Germany, which added to the delays in getting things put back to rights). If I recall correctly it was something on the order of 30 hours labor. The cost of the crankshaft alone was almost two grand, add in seals and other parts, plus 30 hours of labor, you can start to get an idea.

C320Jeff

Yes, I cannot say enough how impressed I am with the exceptional response from ASP. Exceedingly good business practices. They have my utmost respect.

Enze6997

Whats MB saying about the remains of your warranty?

truelove

it's good to know there are still companies out there with some self-respect as well as respect for their customers.

C320Jeff

Well, because the crankshaft was replaced, THAT work is warrantied, and any future claims would have to be proven to be attributed to the pulley, which will be nearly impossible to do now that it's off. Sure, they can **** and moan about the Eibach springs and sways, hell they have snide remarks to offer every time I go in, but all in all, I'd say I'm pretty much back to ground-zero warranty-wise.

Jim Banville

The thing that irked me about the original post was your immediate insinuation that the problem you had (loss of power steering, overheating, stalling) was an indication of MB unreliability rather than a wait-and-see stance

schwarz c230

Jeff are you done with the perfomance mods

C320Jeff

Agreed, and I humbly admit that was premature... I guess given the number of issues I'd read about until that point about the C-Class, in conjunction with the plethora of issues I and my other half have had (we both have 2002 C-Class, hers is a C320), I just presumed it was more electronics faults, etc. Note, I used the word PRESUMED, and I do retract that.

However, since you brought up the MB quality issue, I will take this opportunity to mention my dissatisfaction with the "build quality" of the C-Class. The overall tightness I'd expect from a $30,000 and $40,000 car, respectively, just is not there. The number of squeaks and rattles my aging but still-sensitive ears perceive is unaccaptable for a new car today (and no, I'm not just talking about that blasted panoramic sunroof either, I'm talking about steering column, dash, console....). I expect a car in that price range to be solid and silent. The solid part I got, I do feel safe and solid in my 3300lb coupe. The silent part, sadly I did NOT get. These cars are squeaky, chattering rattletraps.

C320Jeff

Yes, as I replied to a post over on C-sportcoupe....

I have the Eibach springs and sways, the RennTech intercooler, put 18" wheels with high performance rubber on it, and I've tinted the windows.... but that's about it.

I figure in another year or so I'll probably sell it or trade it in. Not sure yet if I'd go MB again, although I really have to admit I love the coupe (just not its squeaks and rattles).

trench

I'm guilty of this. I just found it somewhat suspicious that almost every post you'd ever made on the forum was deleted. However, if I was in your position and people were questioning my mechanical abilities I may have done the same in a fit of rage.

Glad everthing worked out OK.



Cheers, BT

C320Jeff

Yes, it was indeed out of rage that I did that, in fact it took me a couple hours, and after the fact, a mod I chatted with told me "gee, I could have done that for you in one fell swoop if you'd just asked me to" ...

Partially because I was unsure of the outcome of this situation, and I was concerned with my many modding references across 600+ posts, I just figured it easier to blithely delete them all. It was also partially however, because I was pissed at the forum in general for seemingly transforming me from victim to villian, and I was acting out on a moody temper-tantrum by whacking them all. To quote a childhood favorite sitcom "Sorry about that, Chief!"

(two points for the first poster to name the character that said that all the time, and another point for his real name )

trench

Maxwell Smart as played by Don Adams.

I hope my prize isn't a busted crank pulley!

- BT

C320Jeff

LMAO, dats right...

Nope, "no pulley for you!"

trench

Paraphrase of "the Soup ****" as played by Larry Thomas (I had to look that one up - he got an Emmy nomination for the part).

The real soup **** has awesome soup: he's in Manhattan on 259A West 55th Street (north side of the street between 8th Ave and Broadway) if anyone wants to check it out.

Cheers, BT

Matt230K

Jeff, I'm curious about the crankshaft. Was it damaged by the pulley shearing off or did you end up damaging it trying to get the rest of the hub out of there?

I'm wondering if this ever were to happen to anyone else (I hope not), would you be able to take apart the engine to get the hub out, and leave the crank, or was replacement of the crankshaft absolutely necessary? Thanks.

Matt

C320Jeff

It appears the hub and/or key fused to the shaft, I was unable to get the hub out myself. The shop had to pull the engine to get the shaft out, when the shaft was pulled the shop said because the shaft was not perfectly smooth they could not guarantee safety with the new key/pulley and wouldn't warrant the work. They suggested the pulley might then wobble, not be seated perfectly on the end of the shaft, etc. I sent the [many] parts to Lee and he concurred the key sheared because it didn't have enough surface area in the keyway, this was a design shortcoming. Regardless of whether the crank was replaced or reinstalled, you'd still be looking at many hours' labor and thousands to restore and reuse the crank. Had I pushed the shop to reuse the crank, sure, they probably would have, but they wouldn't warrant the work. I was not about to take that kind of chance and I'd gamble not many others would. Would you?

Matt230K

No, I wouldn't. I thought maybe it just got damaged in some way that might not happen in every case. But if the hub was fused on there, I would definitely want a new crank.

MarkL

I'm sorry to hear that -- maybe it's a fault with the coupes. My C240 sedan's build quality and tightness meets all my expectations of a $30-40K vehicle. The headrest made a slight rustling noise at first, but that was corrected. It's the quietest and smoothest running car I've ever owned, and I've owned many.

C320Jeff

Hard to say for sure, there are a number of unknown aspects, for example, it sheared in sub-freezing weather when metal is likely to be more brittle, could this have been a factor? Brittleness is a factor I don't think has been explored or discussed at length. What about the vibration issues that keep arising in discussion time and again? What about torque, key stress, alloy composition or fatigue, ... not sure we'll ever get good answers to any of these. One thing which in retrospect logically makes all the sense in the world, that a given thickness of an aluminum alloy surely cannot withstand the same stresses as the same given thickness of solid steel, but who would have thought that a pulley with a seemingly relatively "light" load would give in this manner? Obviously not ASP, obviously not the designer, obviously not the consumer.... hmmmmmmm... hindsight sure is a priceless thing.

All things considered, in retrospect with today's knowledge I would never install an all-alloy pulley of equal dimensional thicknesses to do the same job as that of steel... it's just a few days short and many dollars shorter. These are the ways we learn. Hopefully.

Matt230K

Well, I'm just hoping that the Kleemann is truly a superior design and that it will stand up. I realize they are both aluminum, but I think it was decided that Kleemann has a slightly thicker piece of steel on the hub. I hope this is enough.

20FHK02

In relation to the ASP alloy pulley and MB quality, months ago I mentioned about putting on the pulley and suspected that it caused a crank shaft leakage. When I put back the stock pulley the leak stopped.

Now, the pulley has been off for more than 2 months and the leak returned about 3 weeks ago. I took it to the dealer and today they found out that the leak was actually not from the shaft, but from the gasket of the engine block front panel. There is an obvious trace to spot. The fix that, they need to replace the gasket, as well as all internal O-rings including the crank shaft ring just in case, which means they pretty much need to take the entire engine apart and reassemble...

End result: I purchased the extended warranty after 15 minutes of hearing this incident :p