henko

Guys,

I'm sitting on a '94 SL600 with a few issues - ASR Light/Wiring Harness/ETA failure, shot cats, oil leaks and 134,000 miles.

Fixing it would probably run $5,000 and not something I'm up for given it will be hard to recover that cost.

The car is in good cosmetic condition, only a couple of scratches on the hood and a worn driver's seat. Other than that the car looks almost new. Before the ETAs burnt up I had it serviced with new Michelin PS IIs, new pads and rotors and a new power steering pump. Also has 18" chrome AMG wheels (not the "star" pattern - the other one).

This is a SoCal car with no rust and per se should be "easy" to part out. Do you guys have any idea as to how much the car is worth in parts as opposed to selling it as is on the open market?

Motor on,
H.

CWW

I think you are going to lose money no matter what you do at this point, but I think you will actually lose more by parting it out.

They only made 10,000 or so SL600s during the whole model-run, and with the exception of the hydraulic suspension and the older model wiring harness, they tend to hold up pretty well...so I am not sure there is a huge demand for parts...especially considering that tons of the parts you'd be parting out (suspension, motor, dashboard, interior fittings, steering wheel depending on year, wood trim, etc.) isn't shared with the SL500. Very limited demand.

Add to that the fact that you can still get whatever part you need directly from MBUSA with no problem, and that most SL600 owners probably don't favor used parts, and I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

Ya, it's $5k to fix, but I don't think that's worth parting it out. The car's probably worth somewhere around $18k even with those miles. I don't think you'd ever get that much for parts. You can buy aftermarket cats, and if you got almost 140k miles out of one of those defective early 90s wiring harnesses then you really should consider yourself lucky.

That's my $0.02

henko

Without a doubt!Down from a $100K... I wish it was worth $18K, but most cars I see are sold for a lot less: $12K and below for this kind of mileage. That being said, one with a well documented fix of the wiring harness may command upwards of what you are quoting.

What's the latest on fixing the wiring harness anyway? I had one of the EAs sent to Reman in Mass but it gave me the same fault codes. So now the only one I know of is www.4mercedes.com in Florida and they charge up to $1,500 a pop (And that does not guarantee that something isn't wrong with the ECUs or anything else... ) Thoughts?

HLG600

What you should first do is get a complete diagnostic of what is wrong with the car and an accurate estimate from and independent mechanic. I would avoid the dealerships since they tend to inflate repair costs. Also, an independent mechanic that you give a good deal of business to will remember you, as opposed to the typical dealership. After you have this figure, the choice is really up to you. If you repair the car, then put a detailed run-til-sold listing on autotrader and drive it for your enjoyment in the meantime.

henko

Believe me, the indies have been all over this car. I've had it to the dealer (quoted me $12K!!!), an "expert" indie (not so much) and then to another guy who has been very helpful with his "star" system. Unfortunately, without knowing if the EAs are functioning or not (code returned is "CANBUS not communicating with EA unit") they can't do much. And besides buying new EAs at $3,500 a piece only the guy in Florida has come out and said he can fix them.

Nonetheless, I guess I just have to do the math. Would you agree with previous reply that demand for SL600 parts isn't there?

HLG600

Ouch...I'm sorry to hear the repairs are that extensive. Frankly, I am not too sure about the used part market for this car. Granted, new parts can be very costly, but parting out the car can easily become a tedious process. I would lean away from parting it out. If for $5K it can be running flawlessly, then perhaps move forward with the repairs and list it on autotrader run-til-sold. As a buyer, I would be more inclined to purchase a vehicle that had many of the major problem areas repaired recently. However, playing devil's advocate, if you are simply fed up with these repairs, then cutting your losses and trying to sell as is would be an option.

henko

Btw, I forgot to mention that I already had the EAs rewired but the fault codes remain the same (and the car didn't get out of limp mode).

CWW

Get it fixed.

Don't part it out.

Then drive & enjoy.

The cheapest prices I have ever seen any running decent-condition 600s (with any mileage) listed for sale at were $15-$18k. Lower mileage ones are in the $20-$25k range, and this is for the '93-'95 model that you are talking about. They go up as you get newer.

It's not like they're not worth anything. Then you get the limitations on demand for parts that a complete model-run of only 10,000 vehicles presents. I just don't think parting it out is the economically sound thing to do, unless it's been wrecked or something.

Plus, come on...It's a V12 Mercedes not a Honda. You don't part it out when it breaks.

Bigdot

i hate to break it to you, but the 129's are not workth anything like that. even the 600's

CWW

I'm not talking about 129s generally, just the 600s.

And you're wrong about the values. I said $16-$18k for a '93-'95 daily driver, and more for the newer ones. That's spot-on.

Don't take my word for it, here's a smattering from autotrader...and the first one at $17,488 is, for the record, the cheapest SL600 of any year listed for sale...

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...=&cardist=2373

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e=&cardist=777

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e=&cardist=824

Then if you start looking for lower-mileage museum pieces, you get a lot higher...

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e=&cardist=863

If you still have any doubt, do a search for completed auctions on Ebay, which are usually wholesale prices...some of them went unsold, but you can still get an idea of values...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1995-...em190189413003

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-ME...em320210994949
(somebody got the deal of the century on this one...nice unit)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-...em220190056050

Anyways, you get the idea...

CWW

So like I said....

I still can't see how it will make any financial sense to part out an SL600 over some relatively minor mechanical issues.

Bigdot

he is selling a 94 with 160K miles, not a 96+ with 60K
heres a great example..... and he is NOT selling at dealers price


http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ce=&cardist=47


1/2 the miles as his.... and a CA car.

not trying to argue or be a dick. but its definately not a sellers market right now.

Mark

henko

Settle down guys...

No seriously, Mark - ads like the one you highlight is what has prompted me to have these suicidal thoughts.

The question is: Is the Wiring Harness/ETA issue priced in to that car already and should I expect to get more for my car if I permanently address that issue? If his car runs fine with half the miles I have while mine only runs in Limp Mode then I won't get much more than $5,000 for it in the state it is now. The repairs will probably end up at more than $3,000.

And, if I part it out, I can get $500 for the hardtop, $1,000 for wheels and tires, etc. It should pretty easily add up to $10,000 - of course with a lot of added effort of taking the beast apart.

Anyway - do you guys see my dilemma here???

Bigdot

where do you live? my mecahnic is in costa mesa, you might want to stop by and talk to him, he is very honest and nice!

HLG600

Mark, common sense dictates that more likely than not there is some story with that car on autotrader. I would thoroughly have it inspected before I consider it. Realistically, R129 600's (barring Silver Arrow editions) with relatively low mileage are trading in the low to mid twenty thousand range. Definitely not a seller's market, but still not abysmally low either.

As for henko's car, I initially missed the 135K mileage part. I still believe the one listed on autotrader is a pretty big outlier...for whatever reason that may be. Still, that type of mileage will make selling a bit more difficult. $10K is a very realistic goal for parting out...just time consuming. I can understand your pain, and frankly am sorry your R129 is generating such frustration.

If the car really is in stellar visual condition, then you could surpass the $10K mark you have. Plus, I'm sure there's some fanatic out there just dying to buy and M120 and rebuild it into a real animal.

CWW

Oh gimme a friggin break...You went online and managed to find literally the only SL600 for sale at anywhere near that price...

Also, it looks like you want to completely ignore the obvious issues with that listing...like the fact that it only has ONE photo showing a car parallel parked on a city street. That's already a giant red-flag. Then, when you bring the pic into photoshop and blow it up, it looks like the car has an Ohio license plate but the contact phone number is a California area-code. You get the point...

Go ahead and try to buy that one...I bet your money ends up in Nigeria.

Meanwhile, I posted what? Like 10 listings, plus completed auctions on Ebay, showing the value to be $20k's and up for a nice one and exactly what I previously said for the one the OP is describing...$16k-$18k.

Bigdot

this man is obviously NOT selling a NICE one..... there is a big difference between a nice merc. and a not so nice merc. not trying to argue at all...... so i guess we will agree to disagree. but find a 94 with high miles that SOLD on ebay for anything over 12.

CWW

I agree with you completely that the condition of the car is everything, value-wise. I don't think we disagree on that at all.

I guess I'm looking at this situation as a cost/benefit analysis of selling the car in its current non-running condition for $6k or whatever, or parting it out and getting (in my estimation) almost nothing for it, versus completing the necessary repairs, throwing in a detail job, and retailing it.

I think the OP is going to lose money no matter what, but he needs to realize that he will lose LESS by fixing it and selling it than by trying to sell a bunch of 15yr old used parts for one of the most limited-production cars around, or selling off a completely non-functional car.

Also, until I re-read the thread I also missed the part about it having 135k miles, so I think maybe that's where we differ.

Even so, I still think he will come out ahead by fixing the issues and then selling (or keeping) the car, versus parting it out. I don't think there is any kind of used-parts market for this car, and he isn't going to get squat if it's not running when he sells it...maybe $6k-8k.

Even with the miles he has, it's still worth $13k or so according to Kbb and the rest, so he saves a couple grand that way.

lynns

Forget about the cost to repair and what the value is of the car is now or after repairs minus there cost. Do you like the car and want to keep it? If not run it of a cliff and claim it otherwise fix it with a well qualified Indy and drive and enjoy until it needs more repairs.

There comes a time for every owner of a vehicle when he/she decides that the costs are becoming to much and to regular and they have to make a decision to cut there losses. What will yours be?

If you need help with the name of a great Indy in Walnut I will be glad to help. Just PM me.

BTW, this is a perfect example of the cost to repair a used R129 V12. I think this ends the argument about how much they cost to maintain vs. a R129 V8.

Come and join us on 3/8 at the SoCal M-B Meet with or w/o your R129. Please see the above Sticky.

asodergren

As a data point for the value argument, I bought a 1999 SL600 from a private party in Florida in August 2006 for $20,000 even. The car is triple black and had 63,000 miles when I bought it. Nice shape and no problems with all maintenance up to date.

asodergren

Interesting, I see in that last post that my profile has crashed. Suddenly, I'm a newbie with one post, just signed up last month, lost my avatar and signature, etc.. Anyone else had that happen?

CWW

Lynns...

Hate to argue with you buddy, you are a font of knowledge about 129s...much more so than me, and I definitely respect your opinion. Even so, you ought to consider that you might be just a little teeny bit jaded, considering you own a 500...it's kind of like discussing the giants if you're a patriots fan. Lol.

If you look at it objectively, it's pretty obvious that everything the OP has a problem with can (and will eventually) go bad on an SL500 just the same as it did on his 600.

At some point, everyone will have to replace their cats due to nothing but age and mileage...that happens on any car and certainly isn't limited to V12s. Also, the 500s are equipped with ASR the same as the 600s, so that crapping out has nothing to do with it being a V12. Ditto on the wiring harness issue...the 93/94 500s had the same problems, and everyone knows to steer clear of 129s of that vintage with the original harnesses unless you plan on taking out a second mortgage to replace it...evidently the OP just didn't do his research before he bought one.

None of this stuff is really related to the V12, and any of the things the OP mentioned would cost the same to replace on a 500 as they do on a 600. The cars use the same cats, the ASR module is the same, the wiring harness might be a little bit more but it's still really expensive either way, etc. etc. etc. The bottom line is, if the OP had bought a 500 of the same vintage in the same condition, he'd have all the same expenses. We're not talking about camshafts or headers or anything like that, where the V12 parts would be more expensive...we're talking about problems that are common to both engine types, and stuff that would have crapped out just the same on a V8.

HLG600

While I agree with your ideology on maintenance comparison, the 600 is equipped with ESP while the 500 has ASR. Both are variants of traction control, yet have different modules and operate differently The only problem area exclusive to the 600 model is the ADS suspension, which but a handful of 500's came equipped with. I believe Lynns is critiquing the automobile as a whole, not the powertrain...everyone of the R129 community is well aware of the sheer durability of the M120.

lynns

The SL500 comes with ASR and ESP starting in MY98. Please see http://www.mbusa.com/overview/1998/S...ccClassCode=SL

CWW

Not true, my dad's SL500 has the same ASR system as my car. Same buttons, same module, etc.

Lynns is right...I've seen several vehicles with both variants in different engine configurations. I think it was either some kind of option package, or it changed at some particular model year, but it came on both models.

The truth is, you could get every option an SL600 came with in an SL500 if you wanted to pay for it. There is really not a whole lot of difference between a 600 and a nicely optioned 500, from a reliability standpoint. Just as much electronic stuff to go wrong.

I agree with you completely as to the reliability factor of the 600 engine. It is on par with the 500s, IME. There are numerous examples of 100k+ mile 600s still ticking along just fine. Even in this case, the OP's car is falling apart because of an avalanche of deferred maintenance on the electronics, exhaust, etc., but the engine and transmission aren't a problem.