benz_addict

I have a 4Matic S500 with 245/40zr19 front and 275/35zr19 in the rear (S65 tire sizes). My car has really bad vibrations on highway speeds. Dealer found a bent rim (front right) but they fixed it and vibrations still happen. I got them rebalanced about two months ago so I ruled that out too, now I just don't know what's causing it? I also have brand new Falken tires. Is this because I have a staggered setup on a 4matic?

Vibrations don't happen with my stock 17s.

Skylaw

I don't know if it is the cause of your vibrations, but suspect that it is. NEVER stagger the wheels on a 4Matic, unless you can ensure that the rolling diameter (revolutions per mile) of the front and rear tires are the same. You will wreck your drive system.

See http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...ml#post2826116 and the diagram at post 12, https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...hlight=4-Matic. When you can see that all of your drive shafts and transmission are linked, with only CV joints to account for differentials in rotation, you'll see what I mean.

The vibration could come from other sources - ball joints, other front suspension components often written about in the forums. Staggered wheels on a 4Matic, without taking the precautions I mentioned, is a prescription for HEAVY repairs.

Gondon

Control Arms can cause this vibration?

benz_addict

rims are off the car now, they'll be up for sale.

AH1W-COBRA

it was simply the zr-45 and zr-35 mis match.was this required because of the 19 inch wheels or simply cosmetic.all you need is two tires right?oops,didnt look closely enough at your thread.no problem with 17s.bent,stagger or bad tire at least your drivetrain is breathing a sigh of relief.

Dino I

Skylaw, you're absolutely right about the rolling diameter. If you do the math, you will find that the eight of the flank for the front tire is 98mm and the height of the flank for the rear tire is 96.25mm. The respective diefference in distance per revolution is approx. 1/2 inch. That is sufficient for the 4Matic (together with all the other wizards - e.g. 4ETS) to engage, and that is what is causing the vibrations. In the long run, this will, as Skylaw already pointed out, ruin your car.

For RWD cars this doesn't matter, because the ASR verifies only the rear RPM's and the ABS is not triggered by this little (and - per axis - balanced) difference.

So, to just chime in - DON'T DO THIS TO A 4MATIC, IF YOU WANT TO KEEP IT!

benz_addict

thanks for the tips guys

Already sold the wheels LOL

Skylaw

Thanks, Dino I.

I drove Audis with Quattro drivetrains for years. Nothing sadder than seeing a new one in the shop one day, on a lift with its drivetrain components spread out all over the place. I asked the tech what was going on - the tech said "This guy didn't believe his manual when it said don't drive more than 50 mph or 25 miles with the emergency (small) spare tire. Damage is over $10K, including to his transmission." It had happened after about 100 miles of driving.

I always made sure I had a full-sized spare in my trunk, and always replaced all 4 tires at the same time when they needed it. Plus, I was a bear on checking for proper inflation.

And that was before the Audis had sophisticated stability control systems, to the extent our Benzes have today.

newton22

I guess Porsche utilizes a completely different AWD system as all their AWD cars run staggered sizes.

Dino I

newton22,

although, I don't know any specifics of the Porsche system, there is nothing against staggered wheels, as long as you make sure that the rolling diameter is the same on both, front and rear. It is all about different speeds (rpms) of the tires...

benz_addict

Have a question...Not that I have the wheels or I'm going to do this but JUST ASKING because it's really been on my mind before I sold my wheels anyways,

What if I went 255/40zr19 all around? Same tire size all around? The rims were 8.5" front, 9,5" REAR. Would that affect the 4matic system?

newton22

In theory, it should work, but I'm not so sure. In reality, it would look horrible, as the rear tires would be stretched and the fronts would be slightly bulging out.

Ideally, get 8.5s all the way around and run 245/40-19, my current setup.

ebolick

hope this does not sound to dumb but how do i know if my car is 4matic? i hope not since i have stagger rims on it. and i have had alot of suspention problems and now my trannie is slipping a little bit from 2 to 3 gear.

my06clk

+1 to that

my06clk

4matic means your car has all wheel drive. The quick check it to see if you have drive shafts on the front wheels. If not its a RWD car.

Wheels won't make a tranny slip.

S-Clusiv

were there MY2000 4Matic S-Classes?

newton22

To my knowledge, no.

Skylaw

According to the MBUSA older model overview, 4-Matic was first offered on the W220 in the '03 model year.

ebolick

thanks since mine is a 2000 i dont have to worry

Dino I

4Matic (AWD) started on the W220 with MY2003 as already stated.

You can check whether it is a 4Matic by looking at the VIN...

S500 RWD VIN starts with WDBNG75...
S500 4Matic VIN starts with WDBNG84...
S430 RWD VIN starts with WDBNG70...
S430 4Matic VIN starts with WDBNG83...

The S350 4Matic was not offered in the US.

All other W220 models were not available with 4Matic.

Corrected thanks to Skylaw

Skylaw

Correct, if you mean only "all other W220 models" (e.g., S55, etc). The E-Class has offered 4Matic for many years.

Dino I

Corrected the statement regarding all other models thanks to Skylaw.

btw, the 4Matic-equipped models always come with the 722.6 transmission (which is the older 5speed transmission), whilst the respective RWD models come with the newer 722.9 (i.e. 7speed) transmission (S430, S500) starting in MY2004. This results in an even higher mpg for the RWD models in comparison to the 4Matic models (amongst other things).

Skylaw

Helpful info in both of your posts, Frank. Thanks!!